There’s a new video out that criticizes cap-and-trade. Overall, I’d give it a “C”. Here’s why:
The good
- The dangers of promising something for nothing. Many supporters of the current cap-and-trade legislation work hard to avoid the fundamental truth about cap-and-trade, namely that—like a carbon tax—it reduces pollution by making polluting expensive. As a result, it is not surprising that the current legislation is likely to do a bad job of making polluting expensive: over the next twenty years, according to simple calculations based on EPA estimates, the bill will raise the price of gasoline by about 28 cents per gallon (in today’s dollars) and the price of coal-fired power by about 2.8 cents per kilowatt-hour. This makes me very nervous, and when I hear supporters say that the bill will tackle climate change at a cost to the average household of only a postage stamp a day I worry that we’ll get what we pay for: not much. There are technicalities here, and it is indeed possible to have a well-designed policy that reduce emissions at low net cost—e.g., through a tax shift, or through a well-designed cap-and-trade program—but I don’t see how we’re going to seriously reduce emissions without a stronger carbon price. The bottom line here is that supporters of the current legislation are walking a mighty fine line, and the video does a good job of pointing out the potential risks of adopting a policy that may create “a false sense of progress”.
- The dangers of offsets. The video does a good job of describing how offsets are supposed to work and how they might be gamed. It should be noted that the specific examples described in the video might not be applicable to current legislation, but everybody worries about offsets, and for good reason.
- The potential uses of carbon pricing revenue. The video does a good job of describing how carbon pricing revenue—either from auctioning off permits or implementing carbon fees, a.k.a. a carbon tax—could be used to improve the environment and/or help households adjust to the higher fossil fuel prices that would result from carbon pricing.
The bad
- Overly broad generalizations. The video says that “cap-and-trade will never work for climate change” and that’s just wrong. The specific proposals on the table might not be good, but that doesn’t mean that cap-and-trade will never work. This is a mistake that James Hansen makes too, so it’s worth remembering the fundamental truth about cap-and-trade, namely that—like a carbon tax—it reduces pollution by making polluting expensive. It makes no sense to simultaneously condemn one of these policies and embrace the other.
- Anti-market hysterics. The video claims that “you can’t solve a problem with the thinking that created it”, but I for one happen to be a big fan of using market forces to correct market failure.
- Anti-trading hysterics. This is closely related to the anti-market hysterics, as when the video makes a big villain out of the whole concept of trading, e.g., all those images of Wall Street types making out like bandits. And the cheer of “Go EPA go! Cap that carbon!” comes dangerously close to endorsing the movement for cap without trade. This movement makes no sense. Yes there’s a case to be made for eliminating offsets, and yes there’s a case to be made for auctioning off permits, but there’s no good case for preventing emissions trading.
You know Yoram, Einstein would disagree with you. He said “you can’t solve a problem i the mind state that created it.” So, you think you’re smarter than Einstein?? : ) J/K I agree that cap and trade is the first step, but I also think it is not ideal. We are forced to work within the constraints of the system we have created for ourselves. We are stuck in a political/ privatized corporate box and must work within it to find a way out I suppose. It would be nice to see a paradigm shift away from short term profit to long term sustainability eventually. Can the market forces aid in this shift?
You know Yoram, Einstein would disagree with you. He said “you can’t solve a problem i the mind state that created it.” So, you think you’re smarter than Einstein?? : ) J/K I agree that cap and trade is the first step, but I also think it is not ideal. We are forced to work within the constraints of the system we have created for ourselves. We are stuck in a political/ privatized corporate box and must work within it to find a way out I suppose. It would be nice to see a paradigm shift away from short term profit to long term sustainability eventually. Can the market forces aid in this shift?
Doesn ‘t cap-and-trade require a lot of government intervention? You have to decide how much pollution is going on, and how much it should cost, and you have to regulate the trades to prevent fraud. Lots of opportunities for fraud and for corruption, lots of paperwork.
To do a carbon tax you have to track the carbon fuel sources, and tax them. And you have to figure out what to do with the money. Apart from that, the market could take care of itself.
You say they’re practically the same thing. Is it that the advantage of regulating carbon is large enough that the details don’t matter? Or have I missed the point?
YB: Once you track the carbon fuel sources sufficiently to tax them, you could also just require sources to have a permit… and that’s cap-and-trade.
Doesn ‘t cap-and-trade require a lot of government intervention? You have to decide how much pollution is going on, and how much it should cost, and you have to regulate the trades to prevent fraud. Lots of opportunities for fraud and for corruption, lots of paperwork.
To do a carbon tax you have to track the carbon fuel sources, and tax them. And you have to figure out what to do with the money. Apart from that, the market could take care of itself.
You say they’re practically the same thing. Is it that the advantage of regulating carbon is large enough that the details don’t matter? Or have I missed the point?
YB: Once you track the carbon fuel sources sufficiently to tax them, you could also just require sources to have a permit… and that’s cap-and-trade.
“Once you track the carbon fuel sources sufficiently to tax them, you could also just require sources to have a permit… and that’s cap-and-trade.”
I see! I was thinking about something else and didn’t notice the difference.
If the goal is to burn fossil fuel with less pollution, then you need to track who’s doing the pollution. Once you know who that is, you can tax them or give them permits.
But if the goal is to reduce fossil fuel burning and encourage alternatives, then it’s enough to tax *fossil fuel* sources and let them pass the added costs on until those costs reach final customers. Customers might still pollute when they burn, but it will cost them more and alternatives will be relatively cheaper than they would otherwise. Fossil fuels become more expensive for all uses and the uses do not have to be tracked — the market passes those expenses wherever the fuel goes.
When the goal is to burn with less pollution, then you must measure the pollution. Polluters win just as much by finding ways to hide their pollution as they do by actually reducing it. Lots of information to track, lots of chances for corruption.
The more that we can get alternative energy sources to replace fossil fuels, the better off we are when the fossil fuels get scarce enough to drive up the price. It’s like when you’re driving, you want to start looking for a gas station before your engine starts sputtering because you’re running out of gas. The time that free markets signal that supply is down and cannot go up, may not be the best time to start building a whole new infrastructure. But this is a different problem from fossil fuel pollution.
If we just focus on getting alternative energy, that doesn’t stop fossil fuels from polluting while they’re still getting burned. It doesn’t even stop the alternate energy from polluting.
A different problem. Taxing fossil fuels is easy. Taxing them when they pollute according to how much they pollute is much harder.
“Once you track the carbon fuel sources sufficiently to tax them, you could also just require sources to have a permit… and that’s cap-and-trade.”
I see! I was thinking about something else and didn’t notice the difference.
If the goal is to burn fossil fuel with less pollution, then you need to track who’s doing the pollution. Once you know who that is, you can tax them or give them permits.
But if the goal is to reduce fossil fuel burning and encourage alternatives, then it’s enough to tax *fossil fuel* sources and let them pass the added costs on until those costs reach final customers. Customers might still pollute when they burn, but it will cost them more and alternatives will be relatively cheaper than they would otherwise. Fossil fuels become more expensive for all uses and the uses do not have to be tracked — the market passes those expenses wherever the fuel goes.
When the goal is to burn with less pollution, then you must measure the pollution. Polluters win just as much by finding ways to hide their pollution as they do by actually reducing it. Lots of information to track, lots of chances for corruption.
The more that we can get alternative energy sources to replace fossil fuels, the better off we are when the fossil fuels get scarce enough to drive up the price. It’s like when you’re driving, you want to start looking for a gas station before your engine starts sputtering because you’re running out of gas. The time that free markets signal that supply is down and cannot go up, may not be the best time to start building a whole new infrastructure. But this is a different problem from fossil fuel pollution.
If we just focus on getting alternative energy, that doesn’t stop fossil fuels from polluting while they’re still getting burned. It doesn’t even stop the alternate energy from polluting.
A different problem. Taxing fossil fuels is easy. Taxing them when they pollute according to how much they pollute is much harder.
broken link to “movement for cap without trade.”
Perhaps this is the story?
http://bsnorrell.blogspot.com/2008/12/takeover-of-dc-office-to-expose-carbon.html
broken link to “movement for cap without trade.”
Perhaps this is the story?
http://bsnorrell.blogspot.com/2008/12/takeover-of-dc-office-to-expose-carbon.html